Urban Agriculture: Growing Food Where People Live ft. Callie Giaccone (Lufa Farms)

This episode of The Resilience Report is one where two of my passions collide: healthy, sustainable food and efficient buildings. Welcome to the world of urban agriculture.

When we think of this topic, few would identify the city of Montreal, QC in Canada as a great place to do so due to the extreme differences in seasons. Within a span of less than 6 months, we can go from over 40 degrees Celsius (that is over 105 Fahrenheit for our American listeners), down to – 40 degrees in the winter (both Celsius and Fahrenheit). And yet one company is making it all possible, producing and delivering more than 30,000 baskets of fresh produce every week: Lufa Farms. In fact, one of their rooftop greenhouses is one of the largest in the word at the size of 3 football fields!

In this episode, I get to speak with Callie Giaccone who is responsible for Lufa Farms’ PR and copywriting. We talk about how the business has evolved over the past 10+ years to now include a marketplace of local producers, the way it now includes rooftop and indoor gardens, how technology is at the heart of their business, how their direct giving program helps to support those in the city struggling with food insecurity, why Lufa Farms is certified pesticide free, and so much more!

Lufa Farms is an incredible example of how one entrepreneur can truly disrupt an industry for the better. Their growth trajectory is truly impressive, as is their desire to continue to do so as a means to create a better food system by growing food on city rooftops. I love local, healthy and sustainable food, and I hope that you will love this episode too!

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Well, welcome, Callie, to The Resilience Report. I'm so happy to have you on today's episode.

Thank you so much. I'm very excited to be here.

So, I'm a huge fan of the organization that you work for, Lufa Farms. They're certainly a pioneer here in Montreal, but then beyond as well. Can you share a little bit about how the organization came to be?

Yeah, of course. So, Lufa Farms, our mission is to create a better food system by growing food on city rooftops. And so, how it started out was one of our founders, Mohamed Hage, he grew up in Lebanon, and throughout his childhood and his early adulthood, he always had access to fresh and local food in his city, and it was very much the norm for him. And when he came over to Canada, he was kind of disappointed by the extensive importation of food in grocery stores from really faraway places. And it was kind of a mixture of both the sustainability and environmental impact, but also the taste of certain foods when he was here. So, it kind of led him to start thinking of potential solutions for this type of problem. And he started thinking about cultivating food where people live. And so, that's why we started building greenhouses on rooftops right in the city. So, it limits importation and it just kind of creates food autonomy for folks in the city.

And can you remind me as to what year this was?

Yes, so this was in 2009 when the idea first started out.

Okay, perfect. And it has really grown. That’s specifically why I'm asking the year because it's been a little while, and to see the evolution from where it started to where it is today. And I know a lot of that evolution has been certainly from a facility standpoint, but then also the overall offering. Can you speak to how those have both grown in both areas?

So, when we first started out - I mean, I wasn't there, but many years ago - when we first started out, we were delivering non-customizable vegetable baskets to hundreds of people. But now it's been over 10 years, and we have four rooftop greenhouses with a fifth one coming, and also an indoor farm. And we're delivering around 30,000 baskets a week. So, it's really grown in a lot of ways. Not only do we have more variety of fruits and vegetables specifically, but we also partner with hundreds of farmers and food makers in and around the city. So now we offer pretty much everything you could find in a grocery store, from eggs, cheese, flour, what have you. So, our offering has really grown in that sense, but we're still mainly focusing on vegetables on our side of things.

That's super interesting. And just to touch on the facilities lightly as well, you're mentioning that there's kind of the classic rooftop and then more of an indoor facility. Can you just speak to the difference in case our listeners are not familiar with the difference between the two?

Yeah, for sure. So actually just a couple of months ago, we opened our first ever indoor farm. And it's single-level. And an indoor farm, basically, well, our indoor farm is in a warehouse. So it's completely closed off to any external temperatures or any light or windows. And the plants grow completely under LED lights. Whereas our greenhouse is on the rooftops, they're glass. So it's a different kind of growing system where we use a lot of natural light, obviously, because the sun's coming in. And there's also residual heat from the buildings coming up to help heat the greenhouse, as well as the sun heating it. So the indoor farm is really more of something that we do kind of within a more controlled environment. Whereas the greenhouse is something where the weather and the heat affects the crops as well.

Of course, absolutely. And you mentioned the idea of marketplace partners. How does Lufa go about selecting these partners? Because you have such a great brand reputation. So I'm sure there's a lot of thought that goes into how you select who you want to work with.

Our partners, we kind of look for medium to small-sized businesses. And we have a very strict admission test and very strict rules, basically, on what ingredients folks can use, especially if they're ready-made meals or prepared foods, based on what ingredients and where they source their ingredients. And otherwise, we just look for people that are working close by and also doing things for the right reasons and farming sustainably and responsibly and organically. And something also that is interesting is that some of our ready-made meal partners, sometimes we'll find like an amazing sandwich or something like this that we want to have on the marketplace. But perhaps the ingredients don't meet our mission test. So that we can have conversations with those people and say, "Hey, listen, if you switch out this tomato for this type of tomato, if you switch out this chicken from this type of chicken, we can have you on our marketplace." So, it becomes more of a collaboration. Sometimes we put partners in touch with each other. So, in this way, it's more dynamic than just saying, "Okay, no." But we have more of a collaboration in that sense.

That's really neat that you're almost sparking additional innovation for these marketplace players in terms of rethinking perhaps some of the structure or the ingredients that they're using. So, it's really neat. In terms of technology, certainly agriculture, we hear it quite a bit, that technology plays a really important role. I'm sure for Lufa, it's no exception. So, I'm curious if you could share a little bit about what technology means to Lufa and perhaps from the agriculture standpoint, but also from how the end user interacts with that experience.

Yeah, absolutely. So, every single greenhouse that we build becomes more efficient, becomes lighter, less expensive. So, technology is always evolving at Lufa. And we're not perfect. We make mistakes, but we're really out to find the best technology for the next greenhouse that we build or the next indoor farm. We have built our own software for our website. So, our marketplace is built from scratch. So, in a way, Lufa is really a software company as well. And for the actual farming side of things, we work with a third-party business called Argus Controls, and they help with the control of the temperature of the greenhouses and both in our indoor farm as well. And we also work with a company called Green Automation, which helps us, it's a greenhouse system that we also implement in our indoor farm, which helps us grow our vegetables through channels. So, we're always just looking for different ways to innovate, and technology definitely plays a key role in that in a lot of ways.

And I'm sure technology has evolved even since 2009. It's probably come light years. So, it's really neat to see what you guys are doing. You mentioned climate environment. Montreal and our snowy, cold climate is not necessarily where I would think to put a rooftop garden. Is that something that you see impacting how and where you can grow and have this business model that Lufa has found such a niche for?

Absolutely. So, one thing that we always say is that Montreal is kind of like a way that you can test out all types of weather because you have your many minus 40 days, and then you have your plus 40 days. Like it's kind of a bit of a crazy scale in terms of weather. But I mean, of course, the weather, it does affect the greenhouses. So for example, in the summer, our bounty is really strong because there's so much light. So, our lettuces grow bigger, and we often have really great deals in the summer, for example, because we have so many vegetables because they're thriving under the heat and the sun. But we are a four-season greenhouse. So, in the middle / in the dead of winter, we still have lettuce. Sometimes a lot of snow gets onto the top of the greenhouse, and then it covers the light, and this can be an issue for sure. But in general, as long as the sun can come through, we're able to, and we obviously have lights and things to adapt. So, you know, we're working on making winter just as exciting as the summer. I mean, I don't know if that will ever come to be, but in the sense that we still do have the four seasons. And in our indoor farm, as I mentioned before, we kind of remove the external factors because it's inside and there's no windows. But this is, it's only been a couple of months, so we do anticipate perhaps some adjustments, maybe in if it's minus 30, how's the building going to be different? How are we going to have to change the heating and that kind of thing? We haven't had to experience it yet, and it's been okay throughout the summer. But we're always working on our toes, and we might have to adjust. And I'm sure there'll be lots more mistakes along the way. So, the weather still impacts us, but it gives us a good base for moving to different places in the future, for sure.

We've had a few guests on The Resilience Report over the past few months saying that maybe they weren't in sustainability prior to the pandemic, and then 2020 hit, and all of a sudden they were kind of questioning what they do, how they buy certain products. Certainly, one of the areas was buying local. So, I can only imagine that Lufa Farms really felt the impact of the pandemic. Can you speak to what that looked like, and perhaps were there any changes made during that time that the organization has still maintained in place?

The pandemic was a very interesting time for us because, as you can imagine, we're an online grocery store. And when it first hit, people were not interested in going to the grocery stores. Restaurants were closed or they didn't want to go to the restaurants and that kind of thing. So, we got a huge influx of people wanting to go to Lufa. And so we were very overwhelmed, honestly. Like the demand was very high. So, in a way, 2020 was a huge year of growth at Lufa. And we really had to kind of work on our toes and onboard new people and onboard new partners and really try to meet all of Montreal's needs. But since then, you're absolutely right. Like it's been a challenging time as well because obviously inflation and our economic climate right now is affecting what people are spending and for people's budgets. For the same amount of money, and Lufa, we do our best to be as successful as possible, but we're not above inflation as well. Like as prices go up, we have to go up as well. So, we are adjusting a little bit, and it has been difficult as we've continued on this road. And so, we've kind of, we're struggling a little bit, but we're thinking of solutions, and we're continuing to work towards growth and all that in the future.

You mentioned ramping up since 2020, and one area that I would love to hear more about is how do you hire urban farmers? I mean, most of my friends living in the city, we can hardly keep houseplants alive. So, is this a skill set that you find locally, or do you train on-site? What has that looked like, especially when you have to really drive up your operations to the number of facilities where you are today?

So, when we look for greenhouse workers, it really depends on the role, but the base level is someone that's motivated and cares about the environment and is really open to learn and that really loves working with plants, because that's what you're going to be doing. We also look for experienced growers, so we do look for people preferably that have worked in commercial greenhouses before. I mean, there's a lot of transferable skills from a commercial greenhouse to a rooftop greenhouse. So we look for folks that have experience in horticulture and in these kinds of operations in general. But in general, when it comes to all roles, we're just looking for someone that's motivated and ready to take on plants and being up in the greenhouse and in the sun and enjoying this type of work.

And when we look at resources, so we talked about a human, certainly my world is in emissions, but another hot topic is that of water as a resource, and certainly agriculture plays a role and really has a tight relationship with managing it. How does Lufa Farms work with water as a resource to ensure that it is used properly, and are there any innovative techniques that the organization is leveraging?

Yeah, so we use a hydroponic closed-loop system for our greenhouses. So basically, what that means is our plants grow in a substrate that's not soil that basically just holds the roots, and the water is, we add nutrients to the water, which provides the nutrients that soil would normally provide to plants. And this is a closed-loop system, so we add the nutrients, and then the water cycles through the plants, and the plants absorb what they need, and then it goes back into the tanks, filters, and continues. So, we filter about 90% of our water. So, it's a really good system in terms of water conservation, because as you said, it's a very precious resource, and it's very important to us that we make sure that, you know, in terms of big commercial production, that we're not overusing water and that we're using it in the most sustainable way possible.

Very neat. And full transparency, when I was doing some research for this conversation, Callie, I was trying to find what has Lufa Farms been up to recently because I've known about it for a number of years and thought of it as such an incredible organization, but something new to me was a foundation arm that didn't necessarily exist a few years ago or maybe I think it was created towards the tail end of 2020. Can you talk about this foundation and some of the important work that is going on there?

Yeah, absolutely. So Lufa Farms has a separate Lufa Farms Foundation, and through this foundation, we operate a charity called the Direct Giving Program. And how it works is basically local nonprofits help us choose individuals, and we support them using our marketplace offer. So, we have about a thousand individuals who are struggling with food insecurity that have access to fresh, local, responsible food. So it's $30 a person per family, plus 25% off marketplace vegetables. And this program is all funded by our clients, like our customers. So, it's a really neat full-circle program where folks donate money, and then we're able to help other people have the same access to this marketplace that anyone could sign up for.

That's beautiful work, and something certainly I'll dig into deeper, and I encourage our listeners to dive in deeper further as well, here in the Montreal area, to learn more. On the topic of food security, I really would love to learn more as to: do you think that the model that Lufa Farms has created is something that could potentially be replicated elsewhere to support maybe more remote communities? I was just, our last guest was from the Yukon and was kind of talking about how getting food, fuel, anything like that into that area is so challenging. Do you think that that could be a potential opportunity for other entrepreneurs, maybe who would like to create this business model in those more remote communities?

I think it's a really great question, and there's a lot of factors that kind of are impeding us from doing this, like tomorrow, in the sense that our future greenhouses that we're looking at right now need to be so large in order to be profitable. So that's kind of a big roadblock to going into smaller areas because in terms of pulling out a profit and making your company work, it needs to be larger in that sense. But, as we continue to innovate, and like I said, every greenhouse we make is more efficient and lighter, more sustainable, our goal ultimately is to be able to replicate the greenhouse system and the food system anywhere. And so, it's not something that could happen tomorrow in the sense that the technology needs to continue to develop, and we need to continue to innovate for these kinds of ideas. But it's something: Lufa is a multi-generational, long-term, big-picture kind of company, and we've been out here for 10 years or a little more, and it's really something that we want to continue doing for 50 years, 100 years, and really fundamentally change the food system. So, it's a really great thing to look into, but will it happen tomorrow? No, it's something that we have to continue to work towards.

Another thing to mention is that up north where there's less light, we would have to change or more light or less light. Like however the temperature and the weather would be different, we would have to adapt our greenhouses to make sure that it's that it works. And so this is something that we definitely want to look into in the future, and we are very motivated to do so. But we want to perfect it in order to be able to kind of remake it in other places as well.

Like you mentioned before, Montreal is kind of the perfect testing ground with our extreme weather to our listeners. We had a tornado come through Montreal yesterday, which is definitely a first. So I do hear what you're saying that Montreal is a really interesting opportunity for us, I think as a business model overall to see if that could work and see where it could expand to elsewhere after that.

One other really interesting thing that I was learning throughout all my research is that the organization recently just secured a third-party certification for pesticide and residue-free operations. Is that correct? And if so, could you speak to what that means for Lufa Farms?

Like I mentioned, we are a hydroponic system, so that means that our plants don't grow in soil. And because our plants don't grow in soil, we aren't able to get the organic certification. But we don't use synthetic pesticides in our growing. So, we looked to see if we could get this third-party certification in order to kind of reassure people that we're still farming in a very sustainable way. So, this is a third-party operation, and it's from the US, and we're the first Canadian partner. And basically, it just ensures that there's no synthetic pesticides in your production and also that there's no residue from neighboring farms. So, for Lufa, in our greenhouses, that's not really too relevant since it's glassed in. But we also have many partners that are also now certified. So, for example, it's field partners that might have neighbors that aren't farming / they're farming with pesticides. They have to make sure that you have a proper distance and all that kind of thing. So, it's a really great certification, and it really helps people that might not have the capacity to grow organically necessarily or get the organic certification but are still doing responsible farming or sustainable farming and out there for the right reasons. So, it's a really great tool in that sense and just a way to reassure people that there's no pesticides in their food.

That's fascinating. I didn't realize that part of an organic certification actually requires the soil component. So that's a great education piece just for us as consumers as to how we can select. I think sometimes we're all a little bit leery to select a certification or a label that we're not as familiar with. So getting to know this, I think, is a great step in the right direction. Thank you for sharing that.

Perfect.

And let's say I'm an entrepreneur. I'm listening to this podcast. I check out Lufa Farms, and this is something that really excites me, and maybe I'm in Ohio, and I think I can bring this locally. What would be the first step for this kind of entrepreneur to set up maybe a similar organization, maybe a different scale, a little smaller just to start things off? What would be your recommendation on the first step there?

Absolutely. Well, first of all, awesome, go for it, do it. I do think that something that's very important is that if you're starting out an endeavor like this, it's important to think of your end game, your final step. What are you trying to do? What is this all about? So when Lufa started, we knew our end game was to create a better food system. And that's a huge job, right? So, it's something that you have to make sure, like, you know what you're getting into, and that is your project going to be scalable? Are you going to keep it small? Do you want it to be a private company? Are you maybe thinking more into a non-profit? So just really having an idea of what you want to get out of it and what the end game is, I think it's a really great place to start.

And on a more personal note, because you are so passionate about this, Callie, I love it. I love it, and most of our episodes we have super passionate people and their founders. And so that energy is understandable. You can say, "Okay, well, it's your baby. This is why you're so passionate about it." I would love if you could share a little bit of your personal interest and how you got into this, and was there a catalyst moment in your own journey that made you want to get involved in sustainable solutions?

Well, honestly, like, I went into Lufa kind of like you, like knowing about it and not really knowing all of the details and just knowing it is a sustainable company. But I have actually had the opportunity to meet with a lot of our partners and visit the farms and visit the kitchens and all of these amazing people right here in Montreal. So I think that the biggest thing for me that makes me very passionate is just learning about my neighbors. We drive one hour outside of Montreal, and there is an amazing farm. We just have so many amazing people that I have gotten to speak with and get to know. And I think that it just reminds me that, even when you go to grocery stores and see lots of things from really far away, there are a lot of people right here in Montreal that are working in a more local and sustainable way. It really motivates me and and makes me proud to be part of this city and this province, so that is really incredible.

And if we have any recent graduates who are listening and who see what is going on (arguably with our weather) or are just feeling inspired by what is happening at Lufa Farms, how would you guide them into a career that really aligns with their values?

I think that it really starts with doing research and taking time to listen to people and seek out people that are doing cool and interesting things. And watching out for things like greenwashing or people who might not be as transparent while still keeping your creativity and being open.

I think that researching is the first step. And not taking things at face value and not being afraid to dig deeper. Don’t be afraid to take risks. If you start out by being super curious, it is a great way to continue to learn and launch your career in this field.

We love to end every episode of The Resilience Report by asking the same question, which is what do you think  it will take for businesses and leaders to be resilient going forward?

Well, I think that it starts with profitability in terms of sustainability.

So, how can we continue to bring out solutions and lower the impact on the environment while remaining economically profitable in that sense.

I think it is all about merging economics with sustainability. Because we know that, unfortunately, that is what drives businesses and leaders. Well, whether it is unfortunate or not, it is more of a reality. So, I think merging those two can be really interesting moving forward in sustainability.

Wonderful, thank you so much Callie. And if our listeners want to learn more, where is the best place for them to go and check out Lufa Farms?

So if you just go to lufafarms.com, there is an About Us section. And on there you can learn all about our greenhouses and our direct giving program, our marketplace, so it is a really good place to start if you want to learn more about Lufa Farms.

Thank you so much for joining us; your passion is contagious and the company’s business model is phenomenal, so thank you for all that you do!

Thank you so much for having me!