Sustainable Fashion: The Eco-Friendly Swap You Need ft. Annette Nguyen (Shwap Club)

A sometimes surprising fact about me is that, as much as I love sustainability, I also love fashion. I grew up in a house with a mum who was born in England at a time where mod fashion was at its height, and who ultimately ended up working as a buyer here in North America before I was born. Over the past decade or so, I have consciously tried to marry these two ideas together by proactively trying to find sustainable fashion solutions.

One of the number one tricks up my sleeve over the past 5 years has been a business right here in Montreal that, in looking through my wardrobe, makes up about half of what I have in my closet. The company in question? Shwap Club, founded by the inspiring Annette Nguyen. 

Having studied and practiced law for nearly a decade in the corporate world leading up to it, Annette founded Shwap Club back in 2018.  As Canada's very first boutique-style clothing exchange club its mission is to facilitate the reuse of clothing in order to counter clothing waste in part through textile reclamation and the exchange of women's, non-gender, children's and maternity clothing and accessories, as well as home décor items.

The concept offers two physical boutiques in Montreal - in Saint-Henri and Verdun - as well as an online store. Since 2021, Shwap Club has had various partnership agreements with players in the clothing industry and has created a donation management program. Annette and her Shwap Club brainchild are absolutely shaking up the fashion industry, having been included in media outlets such as Quebec’s Dragon’s Den, Chatelaine, The Montreal Gazette, La Presse and more. 

In full transparency, when I first came up with the idea for The Resilience Report, I mapped out a shortlist as to who I wanted on the show. Within this very first wish list was getting to sit down with Annette and share her creative approach with you, our listeners. So with that, please help me welcome Annette to the show!

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[Host: Lauren Scott] Welcome back to the Resilience Report. I'm super excited about today's episode because, while I work deeply in the clean tech space, I have such a passion for fashion, and I think this probably goes back to the fact that my mother, growing up, was actually a buyer in the fashion space. We loved clothes, we loved having kind of unique, different approaches to it, and this has been an interesting journey for me over the past few years as I care more and more about sustainability — how do I still carry out that love for fashion and also have the environmental considerations? One business I discovered about five years ago was with our next guest, who is the founder of the business. It's called Shwap Club, and I think it's a really annoying answer for me to give when people ask me where I get my clothes because it's not something that you can easily go and get the exact same piece. It really is such a unique approach. So today, we have the founder of Shwap Club, we have Annette joining us today. So, welcome to the show, Annette.

[Guest: Annette Nguyen] Hey, Lauren, thanks for having me today.

You definitely have a very different approach to the company because I love Shwap Club from an environmental lens, but that wasn’t maybe necessarily the genesis of your company. So, maybe let's start from the very beginning as to what made you want to disrupt the fashion space the way you have with Shwap Club.

I’m a lawyer, and I used to practice in-house for a media firm. I remember at the time, I had all these cocktails, happy hours, and clients I had to meet, and I always wanted to have new clothes. But the reality is I just didn’t have the disposable income, the time, or the willingness to go shopping all the time to buy new stuff. It just wasn’t viable, right? So, I was thinking, "There’s no way I’m the only person with this particular need." I’m sure that there are lots of women out there who wouldn’t mind having a little wardrobe refresh and having a new blouse or dress here and there without having to spend. So that’s how it came to be. In 2018, I decided to regroup all these women — "Let’s start something together, let’s come together, let’s have wine, let’s trade clothes" — and I just wanted to make new friends. So, that’s essentially how it started. It wasn’t from a sustainability point of view; it was more from a financial perspective, but I decided to start this.

Can you help explain the business model? Because it is really unique. I think a lot of people maybe know about vintage stores or consignment stores, that sort of thing, but Shwap Club has a really unique model that I would love for you to walk our listeners through.

Yeah, absolutely. So, the Shwap Club is a club, so you get to be a member such as yourself and join. It’s kind of like — think of it as a gym or your yoga studio. So, essentially, you either pay for a membership for the whole year, or you can just pay $22 every single time you come, drop in for one session of clothing exchange. So, you come during our opening hours, you bring clothes that you no longer wear, that you’ve washed, that you’ve checked for imperfections, that are in-season, that are still trendy, and we will sort these clothes. We will sort them as you shop, and any item that we take from your bag is another item of your choice. So, two conditions to participate: you come in, you pay the drop-in fee (it is currently $22), and you do need to bring clothes to exchange. Now, a lot of people come and they’re like, "What if I don’t have clothes to exchange? Can I just buy stuff?" Unfortunately not, because we’re not — it’s not a thrift store. It is a clothing exchange club, so you do need to have clothes.

I think that business model too is different because a lot of people think of it as maybe a thrift shop that’s a nonprofit per se, but this is really a business, correct? And so, there are different revenue streams. Whether it is, as you were mentioning, the membership, you can maybe buy credits as well. How does that look from a business perspective?

So yes, many different revenue streams. The first one, obviously, is that it’s a club, so we’re talking about membership fees, renewals — so you’ve been a member for five years, you’ve got your membership, you’ve been renewing for years. We have a lot of people that have been with us for a few years. And then, you also have the access fees — so people that will just drop in here and there, once in a blue moon, not from Montreal, don’t have a lot of clothes to exchange, they just want to test it out and see if this is something they’ll like. Then we also have credits for sale. Since we don’t sell clothes, members can buy credits, so they could buy a pack of five credits, which is $40, and then they can just keep it for their entire membership and use it when they need the credits. We also — when we sort the clothes, there are a lot of donations that are being given to us, in the sense that items that we don’t take that cannot go on the floor, for whatever the reason may be, people tend to leave them behind. So, our mission is to reuse all of these items. We’re always looking for a way to give a second life to clothes. So, if we can exchange it, we will try to either donate it, we will try to wash it, do minor alterations if that’s the reason why we didn’t take it. We will then either try to exchange it, put it back on the floor if it works out. If it doesn’t, we will try to sell it for a small amount. So, that’s also another revenue stream that we have, selling items. We also partner up with different associations, giving back to the community, whether it’s for kids' clothes or women's shelters, or people that are just arriving to Canada. But one thing for sure is that there are a lot of clothes to go around. That’s not something we’re lacking.

I can attest to that. Every time I show up, there’s so many clothes that are being brought in, and all different brands too, which is, I think, amazing. You maybe have some brands that most consumers are more familiar with, let’s say Zara or something like that, but then you’ll also find some really high-end pieces as well. So, a nice mix of both of that. And you mentioned it being a club and with that membership, and what I’m always struck by when visiting Shwap Club is that you have so many different types of members. You have maybe those who are more in the fashion influencer space and want to get first dibs on the greatest pieces that are in there. You also have maybe budget-conscious parents who are trying to think through what their clothing looks like. And then you might also have people like myself who work in the corporate space, and I want to have fresh clothes every time I’m going to a different trade show or event but maybe don’t want to be consuming more and more fashion. This is a great way. How have you managed to create a community with such a diverse group of women?

That’s a really good question. I actually never asked myself that. I kind of — I mean, yes, we do, we have people from all different walks of life, absolutely. But I would say that most clients are between, I would say, the age of 25 and 45. They’re professionals, they’re moms — we do cater to that market specifically, but we also have people that are 75 years old. I mean, they bring in amazing stuff, and they are part of the club as well. I guess the one thing, the one common denominator, would just be the fact that we’re all women and we all want to feel good in what we’re wearing. We do want to have a sense of novelty without the whole guilt of overconsumption. We care about one another; people are really nice in the club. So, it’s actually fun to come shopping. It’s not an exclusive experience; I would tend to say that it’s more of an inclusive one. So, I think it’s just a space where we welcome people, and it just makes the experience fun. All of these things, I guess, cater to a large number of women.

You mentioned that you started Shwap Club, so obviously, you’ve gone through that startup phase, and you have a great social presence. Has that been the primary marketing tool, or what have you used in your toolbox over the years to get the word out there? Is it more word of mouth? What has that looked like?

When I first started, I think it was my background working in media, so I kind of understood how to get that traction at the start, that momentum, and I got that all the way leading up to COVID, and then it kind of just plateaued. I mean, obviously, during COVID, everything kind of came to a stop. And now that we’re on the other side of it, it’s getting that momentum again, but it’s not as strong as it was initially. So, I think it was a lot of the background in media, the fact that it’s pretty — it’s fairly easy for me to communicate, to talk to people. I did a lot of interviews, lots of radio. I went on Quebec’s equivalent of Dragon’s Den, and people are still talking about that, which is crazy. That happened in 2021, and we’re in 2024. So yeah, the gift that keeps on giving, right? 

And then, word of mouth. I think that’s the most. So, when people tell their friends, "Hey, this beautiful blouse that you love came from the Shwap Club, you should try it out, I feel like you would love it. It’s this club where you can just bring stuff you don’t wear anymore and grab things, and you can do it all the time." I think that helps a lot. So, when we ask people, "How did you find out about us?" a lot of them are just like, "Oh yeah, colleagues, friends, family." I think that’s the best marketing tool for us.

In your marketing, you have such a unique voice. It’s just kind of fun, approachable, inclusive, but kind of sassy. I just love the voice that you use in your social platforms specifically and also your newsletters, that sort of thing. How have you found that voice? And I’m definitely asking because we have a lot of entrepreneurs who listen to this show, and if they’re trying to think of how they identify and create that voice, is it just leaning into their own natural voice? Were you consciously thinking about how you wanted to go to market with your brand? What did that look like?

It was very unconscious, in a sense where — I don’t know if you’ll believe me if I told you I’m a very lazy person.

I would never believe that.

I am. I’m extremely lazy. I like things to be efficient. I don’t want to work hard in creating a persona, a tone, a voice that is not who I am. So, the way that I talk on social media, or the way that I write, or the way that I speak to you when you come to the store is exactly how I sound in real life. That’s how I talk to my husband, that’s how I talk to my friends. I just wanted to be as natural and as simple as possible. So, when I use that tone, it’s actually my own voice. And that’s the easiest type of work, I think, marketing-wise.

And as part of these conversations you’re having online with your community, have you seen — because you were mentioning it’s kind of like almost a happy accident that Shwap Club has such an incredible environmental impact. Have you seen that there’s starting to be a bit more of a narrative around maybe conscious consumerism? I’m seeing that more and more a little bit on TikTok and Instagram, that sort of thing. Are you seeing that more people are starting to talk about the impact of the fashion industry and how we can make more responsible choices?

Absolutely. But at the same time, is it just the algorithm that’s feeding me that stuff? Am I in this bubble? I can tell you that I started doing clothing exchanges in 2008. It’s been a long time, and at the time, people thought I was crazy. Right? People thought that it was such a weird thing to do. "Why would you care for secondhand stuff?" There was no buzz around vintage stuff and secondhand stuff. I got into that because my mom was an antique dealer before retiring. I grew up with secondhand stuff everywhere in my house; that was her business. I didn’t feel weird about wearing secondhand clothes. I actually liked the idea that something that belonged to you is now in my wardrobe, and it comes with a story, it comes with happy memories, not-so-happy memories. It wasn’t just something that — I don’t know, it didn’t feel cheap. It felt rich somehow. And that’s just a feeling that I had, and I had so much fun exploring and trying new stuff and meeting people. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but people who exchange stuff are generally just nice people. Usually — not all the time, but most people who want to take part in these activities are generally just nice people. I had such a good time. 

But had I started the Schwap Club in 2008, well, first of all, I didn’t have money; I was still a student at the time. I don’t think it would have caught on. It just wasn’t the right time; it wasn’t the right place. And that idea I had in 2008, I sat with it for 10 years. So, it took me years to actually bring it to market. And yeah, I started in 2018, and even then, I was like, I’m still not sure this is going to catch on because it’s just such — it’s not novel in the sense that people have been bartering ever since, you know, like since always. That’s the oldest type of transaction, of all transactions. It’s just such a hipster move to bring it back in 2018, right? And I wasn’t sure if it was going to catch on or not. And now, of course, almost seven years down the line, more people are doing it, more clubs are opening, and now people are not just trading clothes anymore. They’re trading tools; there’s all these Facebook groups and apps and whatnot. So, I think it’s getting more and more popular, yes. So, I definitely see more of that movement. Is it called under-consumption? Is it called being thrifty? Is it called vintage shopping? Whatever, all the names are out there, and yeah, it’s definitely gaining a lot of traction now in 2024.

When you started in 2018, you mentioned at the top that you are a lawyer, you were in the media space, and so part of that transition was also you having Shwap Club on the side to everything that you were doing in your professional space. How did you marry the two, and were you able to benefit from having your passion on the side while you were working full-time? Were you able to lean on some of your learnings in the individual spaces and apply them to the other realm? Was that something that you could do during that time?

Absolutely. Yeah. I practiced for 10 years, so I started in 2012. I stopped practicing somewhere in 2021, so yeah, about a decade. I would say that I was not a huge fan of the practice. I loved my degree, I love having the knowledge. I use the knowledge as a tool for pretty much everything that I do still today — for my leases, for my employees, for everything that is contract-related, which is basically everything. But I would say that, yeah, I didn’t love the profession. But at the same time, I feel like had I not gone through that decade, I probably wouldn’t be the entrepreneur that I am today. And those 10 years working for someone else really allowed me to learn what it is to have a business. Because as an in-house counsel, you do have to touch everything — financing, mergers and acquisitions, labor law, intellectual property. You do a little bit of everything, and it was fascinating. I had amazing bosses that allowed me to really challenge myself, and they gave me the opportunity to try new things. They gave me all the opportunities, so that was wonderful. And it definitely made me a better entrepreneur, I would say. So, I would definitely not have gone out of school and started this right away. I really enjoyed the working part just to gain a bit of experience.

Selfishly, I’m going to ask you this next question because this podcast, I’ve been transparent with our listeners, is a passion project on the side. I work full-time, and I have faced some naysayers about this idea that you can’t do both, that you kind of either have to be all in on your job or all in on that passion project. Did you face any naysayers during that time where you were straddling the two, and how did you navigate that?

I did, of course. But you know what’s funny? People have so many opinions about how you think, what you should do, and how you should do it. The only person that really knows what you’re capable of doing is yourself. So, I think that it’s nice to have advice from people, but at the same time, you need to know that they are looking at the world through their lenses. And I remember telling — in 2018 — telling my family, telling my friends, "Oh yeah, I’m going to start this club." And everyone was kind of like, "What are you talking about? What is this? This is such a weird idea. Why do you think it’s going to work? Why are you signing a lease? Why are you hiring people? What are you doing? You have such a wonderful career; just stick to it. You’re never going to be rich doing the Shwap Club. You have such a great path; you’ve been working in this great company, and it’s so nice to be a lawyer. Why do you want to own a thrift store?" People used to say that all the time. And I was like, "Guys, I’m going to do it. Don’t worry about it. I’m not asking for permission; I’m just letting you know it’s happening. And whether you want to come or not, or join or not, that’s up to you, but I’m doing it." So, I think it’s really hard to know why you’re doing it and to also understand what your real motivations are. Right? 

So, I worked from 9 to 5 as a lawyer — I’m very lucky, in-house counsel, yay! Then at night, I would have my shift from 6 to midnight working in the stores, and I had the energy to do it because, well, I didn’t have kids at the time, first of all. And second of all, the jobs were so different, right? So during the day, I would be sitting in front of a computer, typing emails, drafting contracts. At night, I would be on my feet doing manual work — sorting clothes, putting stuff on hangers, cleaning up the store. It was very balanced; I didn’t feel like I was doing the same thing for 100 hours a week. It was two very different jobs, and that’s what allowed me to do it for three-plus years. And at some point, well, I actually got fired. I should — I got fired. I got laid off, sorry, that’s the correct term, in 2021, which was a blessing. So, choosing to do Shwap Club full-time was not even a real choice. I was kind of like, "Okay, well, I don’t have a job anymore, so yeah, I guess I’ll just go to my store every day." And that’s how now I’m working there full-time. Yeah, so that happened.

Well, I love that you share that too. In your journey, you’ve been very transparent on your social channels and that sort of thing. It has not necessarily always been linear. You’ve had this really beautiful growth of obviously having your online presence, having the store that I know is closer to my home. You have multiple locations now. If we have listeners who maybe have one location and are thinking about taking that next step — about adding a secondary or maybe a couple more locations, whether it is in the same city or elsewhere — do you have any tips for them to think about before doing that jump from one location to multiple?

My biggest challenge was staff. It always is, right? Because when you have one location, someone calls in sick, you show up. You’re your first resource. You’re there, right? When you have two locations, it gets trickier because — I mean, I haven’t figured out yet just how to clone myself. So, staffing becomes an issue. You really have to have a solid team — people that are reliable, that will actually show up when they’re supposed to show up. At one point, we had three locations, and that was just the ultimate nightmare for me. Because when we had three locations, I also welcomed my daughter, which was — you know, it’s a lot. It’s essentially having three kids, and then you’re adding a fourth one, right? So, I think it’s just keeping in mind that you will not be able to be here and there. I know it sounds really obvious, but for me, it wasn’t that obvious when I had three locations. And again, I think that you know what you’re capable of doing. You know who you’re surrounding yourself with. I think you know best, right? It’s really hard to give advice on someone else’s business. For someone else’s business, I should say.

That is great advice. I do understand — it’s always kind of situational. I would love to know your advice, though, maybe on a more broad topic. As you were talking about just before, about that transition from maybe that safe job, we will call it, as a lawyer to more something a bit more of the unknown or even just a transition from more traditional business to something that is more following your values or your passion.

We have a number of listeners, and actually a number of guests since 2020, who made that career pivot. I think it was a moment in time for a lot of people to pursue what they really care about. If you have a listener who is on the fence, who is thinking about maybe doing that transition, do you have any recommendations as to how to do that? It sounds like it was maybe gradual, and then it was almost somewhat forced upon you at the very end. But do you have any recommendations now that you’ve gone through it and maybe could make it easier to do that transition?

I think you really have to — I mean, if you’re going to do it, I think you really have to make sure that that is something you’re going to want to wake up to every morning and do the job seven days a week for years to come. If you’re just doing it because you think that after, you know, after six months, after a year, you will be a millionaire, that this is about money, it’s about being rich — I’m not sure that’s the right motivation. Because before you get there, and I’m sure that, you know, if you grind hard enough, you will get there, you have to realize that you are waking up to the same thing every day. And every day is going to be a different problem because, for as long as you’re an entrepreneur, you will have problems to solve every single day. So, you just have to make sure that that’s something you want, right? Because there is a comfort to having that 9 to 5 where it doesn’t really matter if you mess up. You’re messing up on someone else’s clock. It’s not that — like, nothing is that big of a deal. At 6 p.m., you’re going to be home, you’re going to have your dinner with your family, and then tomorrow is just another day, right? When you make the change, you’re on your own. Everything is your problem. It is your business. Every single mistake that you will make will be your problem. You will be fully accountable for that. And every single great thing that’s going to happen is also going to be just for you. Like, it will be from your doing, and no one will congratulate you because you’re the only one that’s going to know about it, right? So, yeah, you just have to be sure that you’re comfortable with being in that space 100% of the time, all of the time. I don’t really get to be on vacation. People laugh at me because I did trade in a 9 to 5 to work — I would say like a 7 to 11 — like, seven days a week. Even when you’re on vacation, you’re still working. And you have to accept that that will be your life — it will be unbalanced for years before you get to a certain point where you’re like, "Okay, I’m comfortable. I have staff I can rely on. I can kind of sit back and actually be on the beach and not worry about stuff." It’s going to take a while.

Well, to that end, actually, how do you still manage to fill your own cup? Because you give so much. Every time I’ve ever seen you, you have so much energy. How do you fill your own cup as an entrepreneur to make sure that you can keep on coming back to the work?

I go back to why I started in the first place, and I think that I care about people. I care about building a community. I care about understanding their needs. I always wonder, "Why are these people coming? Why are you coming?" And everyone has a different reason, right, or reasons to come. But I’m genuinely interested in the people, and it’s so much fun for me to open the store because I feel like I have this privilege of hosting 20, 40, 50 people, and I just feel like they’re friends coming to visit me. And it doesn’t feel like work for me, right? It’s just — I’m there, yes, I am giving a lot of myself, but at the same time, everyone is giving back also. So, we’re not just exchanging clothes; we’re exchanging a lot more, at least for me. And that’s what keeps me going day after day. It’s always fun. Always, always fun.

And if our listeners want to learn a little bit more about Shwap Club, where should they go?

Check out our website, definitely: shwapclub.com. And you know what? Don’t be intimidated by the fact that it is a club, that we will be selecting clothes. We’re actually really nice. I know that some places are not so nice, especially at the buy-sell-trade consignment stores. Sometimes the experience comes off as people being a little snotty. I only hire based on how nice people are. That’s the first thing I look for. You have no experience in retail, you don’t know anything about clothes, you don’t like fashion, but you’re a nice person? You’re hired. You’re hired. So, like, we hire — I hire — based on how nice people are. That’s the most important thing for me.

Well, I can attest to that. We were just chatting off air before starting, and I realized before this call that it’s coming up on five years that I’ve been a member of Shwap Club. And I would say easily half of my closet is made up of stuff that I found at Shwap Club over the years, so I definitely recommend everybody go check it out. 

We do like to end every episode with the same question, which is, what do you think it will take for businesses and leaders to be resilient going forward?

So, I think, speaking from Shwap Club’s perspective, I would say community is what is going to get you where you need to be. It can’t just be profit. I mean, it’s easy to say profit, planet, people, but I think my focus has been on people and community. I think that when times are rough, or when COVID happens, or yeah, when you need to make difficult decisions, if you have a community that is behind you, that understands — that community understands your mission, understands what you’re doing, why you’re doing it, they will get you where you need to go. So, I trust community a lot in the process.

Well, thank you for building such a beautiful community and for disrupting this space. I think it was long overdue in the fashion industry. So, thank you, Annette, for all that you do.

Yeah, and thanks for being part of it. You’re part of it.